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	<title>Comments on: Windows 7 Looks The Same? OS Version Screen Shots Over The Years…</title>
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	<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/</link>
	<description>Computing for the OS Agnostic</description>
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		<title>By: bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/comment-page-1/#comment-21024</link>
		<dc:creator>bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/#comment-21024</guid>
		<description>mmmm....sorry for the typos and &quot;addition&quot; instead of &quot;edition&quot;, etc.  It&#039;s been a LONG day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mmmm&#8230;.sorry for the typos and &#8220;addition&#8221; instead of &#8220;edition&#8221;, etc.  It&#8217;s been a LONG day.</p>
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		<title>By: bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/comment-page-1/#comment-21023</link>
		<dc:creator>bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/#comment-21023</guid>
		<description>OK, I&#039;ll be the first to complain about HD-TV.  Why is it necessary?  It&#039;s only TV.  Don&#039;t have it and most likely never will unless it comes for free.  And then, only if I have to.  

I&#039;m not a &quot;Vista Hater&quot; (I actualy have certification in Vista Configuration), but I see no personal need to switch.  XP does everything I need it to do and does it pretty well.  Vista is not up to speed with XP in a few areas, and to me is mostly just eye candy.  The so called features can easily be duplicated if you want through third party apps.

Personally, I wish Windows wouldn&#039;t change the UI.  I&#039;m happy with the classic view, with my Rainy Days theme (that color is just soothing to me), my clasic folders and control panel, etc.  I have to agree with a previous poster that it seems to require more mouse clicks to get the same tasks accomplished with each new addition of Windows.  

I&#039;ve despised the &quot;category&quot; approach that Windows has taken ever since it first appeared.  I have to first decide what I want to do, then I have to decide in what category Microsoft has decided to put what I want to do (and it not always that intuitive).  Classically, I know what I want to do, I open the menu, and READ from it to find what it is I want to do.  No guessing.  No endless clicking trying to find what I want or having to remember where something is hidden.

I&#039;m currently beta testing Windows 7 and am already disappointed that classic folders and the classic start menu are missing.  I&#039;ve only been playing with it for a short while, but I see nothing so compelling that would make me want to switch from XP.  I&#039;ve discovered a couple of handy features, but nothing that would make me want to shell out a large amount of money.

I have also found one thing that really concerns me.  The Software Protection Service.  Microsoft is treating me like a criminal and is using my resources (to run the service).  The explanation says that it applies to Windows and Windows programs (I&#039;ve always been offended that I have to continually prove to Microsoft that I&#039;ve purchased their software), but I can see this being extended to any and all apps.  

I&#039;ve rambled long enough.  I&#039;ll end by saying that I wish Microsoft would make the Windows operating system modular.  I should be able to install just the core operating system--without all the integrated apps like IE, and mail, etc, etc. therby letting me choose the apps I want without having to have duplicate apps on my system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#8217;ll be the first to complain about HD-TV.  Why is it necessary?  It&#8217;s only TV.  Don&#8217;t have it and most likely never will unless it comes for free.  And then, only if I have to.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a &#8220;Vista Hater&#8221; (I actualy have certification in Vista Configuration), but I see no personal need to switch.  XP does everything I need it to do and does it pretty well.  Vista is not up to speed with XP in a few areas, and to me is mostly just eye candy.  The so called features can easily be duplicated if you want through third party apps.</p>
<p>Personally, I wish Windows wouldn&#8217;t change the UI.  I&#8217;m happy with the classic view, with my Rainy Days theme (that color is just soothing to me), my clasic folders and control panel, etc.  I have to agree with a previous poster that it seems to require more mouse clicks to get the same tasks accomplished with each new addition of Windows.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve despised the &#8220;category&#8221; approach that Windows has taken ever since it first appeared.  I have to first decide what I want to do, then I have to decide in what category Microsoft has decided to put what I want to do (and it not always that intuitive).  Classically, I know what I want to do, I open the menu, and READ from it to find what it is I want to do.  No guessing.  No endless clicking trying to find what I want or having to remember where something is hidden.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently beta testing Windows 7 and am already disappointed that classic folders and the classic start menu are missing.  I&#8217;ve only been playing with it for a short while, but I see nothing so compelling that would make me want to switch from XP.  I&#8217;ve discovered a couple of handy features, but nothing that would make me want to shell out a large amount of money.</p>
<p>I have also found one thing that really concerns me.  The Software Protection Service.  Microsoft is treating me like a criminal and is using my resources (to run the service).  The explanation says that it applies to Windows and Windows programs (I&#8217;ve always been offended that I have to continually prove to Microsoft that I&#8217;ve purchased their software), but I can see this being extended to any and all apps.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve rambled long enough.  I&#8217;ll end by saying that I wish Microsoft would make the Windows operating system modular.  I should be able to install just the core operating system&#8211;without all the integrated apps like IE, and mail, etc, etc. therby letting me choose the apps I want without having to have duplicate apps on my system.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/comment-page-1/#comment-20093</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/#comment-20093</guid>
		<description>You know, I agree with you guys, and I have to say, many kudos to keeping this a clean discussion.  I myself am an OS mutt.  I use XP on older machines, Vista on my primaries, OS 10.5 on my iBook, and OS 10.4 on my Power Mac, as well as OpenSuse 11 on another machine.  I can&#039;t say that I&#039;m partial to any one OS over another.  Very clearly there are differences, but none that make using any of them impossible in similar circumstances.  I challenge myself each time I try a new OS, to learn to do the same jobs as the last, and compare.  Microsoft wins on two fronts, driver/software availability, and gaming.  I still enjoy a good game every once in a while, and Mac doesn&#039;t have the library, and Linux can do it, with some emulation, some free, some not.  I know quite a few &quot;Vista haters&quot; and they are simply the ones that can&#039;t adapt unless they&#039;re forced to.  They hated XP when 2000 support was nearing it&#039;s end, until they were &quot;forced&quot; into it, and realized, wow, things can be better.  We&#039;re in the IT business, it&#039;s what we do, and for most of us, it&#039;s who we are, and if IT never changed, we&#039;d all be out of a job, we&#039;d likely have very little of what we have today.  I don&#039;t hear people complaining about having HD TV now, or being able to stream media right from the internet into the office now do I?  No they like those changes, but they never stop to realize that it&#039;s the OS capability to handle those services that makes their life now so easy.  So again, great article, and great discussion.

Scott</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I agree with you guys, and I have to say, many kudos to keeping this a clean discussion.  I myself am an OS mutt.  I use XP on older machines, Vista on my primaries, OS 10.5 on my iBook, and OS 10.4 on my Power Mac, as well as OpenSuse 11 on another machine.  I can&#8217;t say that I&#8217;m partial to any one OS over another.  Very clearly there are differences, but none that make using any of them impossible in similar circumstances.  I challenge myself each time I try a new OS, to learn to do the same jobs as the last, and compare.  Microsoft wins on two fronts, driver/software availability, and gaming.  I still enjoy a good game every once in a while, and Mac doesn&#8217;t have the library, and Linux can do it, with some emulation, some free, some not.  I know quite a few &#8220;Vista haters&#8221; and they are simply the ones that can&#8217;t adapt unless they&#8217;re forced to.  They hated XP when 2000 support was nearing it&#8217;s end, until they were &#8220;forced&#8221; into it, and realized, wow, things can be better.  We&#8217;re in the IT business, it&#8217;s what we do, and for most of us, it&#8217;s who we are, and if IT never changed, we&#8217;d all be out of a job, we&#8217;d likely have very little of what we have today.  I don&#8217;t hear people complaining about having HD TV now, or being able to stream media right from the internet into the office now do I?  No they like those changes, but they never stop to realize that it&#8217;s the OS capability to handle those services that makes their life now so easy.  So again, great article, and great discussion.</p>
<p>Scott</p>
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		<title>By: Dom Barnes</title>
		<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/comment-page-1/#comment-19854</link>
		<dc:creator>Dom Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/#comment-19854</guid>
		<description>Based on what I hear from Paul Thurrot on Windows Weekly, the reason is that the UI changed don&#039;t usually come in until quite close to RTM. Why spend ages on UI when the biggest features are built on the backend processed, so they just use the existing UI and make tweaks where needed for the new functionality and features.
Saying that, you don&#039;t need to make massive changes to UI if its working well. The base idea of Windows is the same since 95 (start bar with all programs for your programs, open apps in the bar, taskbar) just with some tweaking to colour, shading, transparency. Just looking a bit online there is plenty to do to skin XP and make it &quot;Vista-like&quot;. 
From my experience, I quite like Vista and wouldn&#039;t buy XP on a new machine now, but knowing how it stuggles on older hardware, I would be very hesitant to upgrade. However my old G4 Powerbook ran Leopard very well, when it came with Panther. Now you couldn&#039;t run Vista on a Windows 2000 designed PC could you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on what I hear from Paul Thurrot on Windows Weekly, the reason is that the UI changed don&#8217;t usually come in until quite close to RTM. Why spend ages on UI when the biggest features are built on the backend processed, so they just use the existing UI and make tweaks where needed for the new functionality and features.<br />
Saying that, you don&#8217;t need to make massive changes to UI if its working well. The base idea of Windows is the same since 95 (start bar with all programs for your programs, open apps in the bar, taskbar) just with some tweaking to colour, shading, transparency. Just looking a bit online there is plenty to do to skin XP and make it &#8220;Vista-like&#8221;.<br />
From my experience, I quite like Vista and wouldn&#8217;t buy XP on a new machine now, but knowing how it stuggles on older hardware, I would be very hesitant to upgrade. However my old G4 Powerbook ran Leopard very well, when it came with Panther. Now you couldn&#8217;t run Vista on a Windows 2000 designed PC could you?</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/comment-page-1/#comment-19853</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/#comment-19853</guid>
		<description>Haha -- you&#039;ve got me, &#039;massively unusable&#039; is indeed a stretch.  Don&#039;t get me wrong, out my three computers (home theater PC, desktop, laptop), two are running Windows Vista -- and the other is Linux w/Compiz for development.  Windows Media Center is drastically better than Front Row or it&#039;s equivalents, and I couldn&#039;t give up the third party support that Windows offers for everyday desktop use.

And although my &#039;massively unusable&#039; comment is a bit dramatic, the points still are true -- It is  a nightmare juggling more than a few windows on my Vista system compared to on Linux and Mac OS X.  The taskbar as an application manager is absolutely painful to use compared to dock solutions.  On a mac or linux dock, if you want to use an application, you make a simple click on the icon that is always and unobtrusively in front of you.  Whether it is already open or hasn&#039;t opened yet is irrelevant -- it&#039;s just there.  On the Windows taskbar, you have to hunt through a hidden menu on the bottom left of your screen to find the application you want -- how is that intuitive at all?  At best, it&#039;s two clicks just to get to the application, and more typically it&#039;s several.

Once it is open, the application gets it&#039;s own space on the taskbar.  Well, sometimes.  Sometimes it minimizes to the system tray, or sometimes it is hidden.  Also, it&#039;s place on the taskbar is never the same -- the more windows are open, the more  your taskbar becomes crowded and applications move to accommodate.  So if you have a lot of windows open, instead of clicking in the same uniform place on your dock, you are hunting through a crammed list of applications presented in a long horizontal list represented by tiny icons and cut-off titles. 

This would be much more manageable if Windows had some kind of easy window-switcher. (No, Flip3d doesn&#039;t count.)  Alt-tab just puts this long list in front of you for you to manually switch to.  On OS X, you can have all of the live windows neatly laid out in front of you in grid-style for you to pick.  In Linux, you make a certain mouse gesture and all your windows are laid out in front of you.  

Although not &#039;massively unusable&#039;, this is a pretty huge difference in usability when dealing with a lot of windows.

In terms of multi-monitor support, I&#039;m not sure if OS X has any advantages. I don&#039;t think stating that Windows is better because of 3rd parties is valid in a discussion about the OS itself, though.  OS X is just as potentially extensible.

Good engineering is defined by what you can take away and still retain all functionality -- I would argue that the OS X and Linux docks get pretty close to the lowest level of simplicity and elegance.  Thus, my argument -- OS X doesn&#039;t really need to superficially change to stay relevant.  Again, their interface innovations occur in things that can&#039;t easily be shown in a screenshot of an empty desktop.  I&#039;m also not preaching that the UIs of OS X + Compiz are the way to go and that Microsoft should copy the competition -- but if they don&#039;t, they sure needs to think up something better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha &#8212; you&#8217;ve got me, &#8216;massively unusable&#8217; is indeed a stretch.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, out my three computers (home theater PC, desktop, laptop), two are running Windows Vista &#8212; and the other is Linux w/Compiz for development.  Windows Media Center is drastically better than Front Row or it&#8217;s equivalents, and I couldn&#8217;t give up the third party support that Windows offers for everyday desktop use.</p>
<p>And although my &#8216;massively unusable&#8217; comment is a bit dramatic, the points still are true &#8212; It is  a nightmare juggling more than a few windows on my Vista system compared to on Linux and Mac OS X.  The taskbar as an application manager is absolutely painful to use compared to dock solutions.  On a mac or linux dock, if you want to use an application, you make a simple click on the icon that is always and unobtrusively in front of you.  Whether it is already open or hasn&#8217;t opened yet is irrelevant &#8212; it&#8217;s just there.  On the Windows taskbar, you have to hunt through a hidden menu on the bottom left of your screen to find the application you want &#8212; how is that intuitive at all?  At best, it&#8217;s two clicks just to get to the application, and more typically it&#8217;s several.</p>
<p>Once it is open, the application gets it&#8217;s own space on the taskbar.  Well, sometimes.  Sometimes it minimizes to the system tray, or sometimes it is hidden.  Also, it&#8217;s place on the taskbar is never the same &#8212; the more windows are open, the more  your taskbar becomes crowded and applications move to accommodate.  So if you have a lot of windows open, instead of clicking in the same uniform place on your dock, you are hunting through a crammed list of applications presented in a long horizontal list represented by tiny icons and cut-off titles. </p>
<p>This would be much more manageable if Windows had some kind of easy window-switcher. (No, Flip3d doesn&#8217;t count.)  Alt-tab just puts this long list in front of you for you to manually switch to.  On OS X, you can have all of the live windows neatly laid out in front of you in grid-style for you to pick.  In Linux, you make a certain mouse gesture and all your windows are laid out in front of you.  </p>
<p>Although not &#8216;massively unusable&#8217;, this is a pretty huge difference in usability when dealing with a lot of windows.</p>
<p>In terms of multi-monitor support, I&#8217;m not sure if OS X has any advantages. I don&#8217;t think stating that Windows is better because of 3rd parties is valid in a discussion about the OS itself, though.  OS X is just as potentially extensible.</p>
<p>Good engineering is defined by what you can take away and still retain all functionality &#8212; I would argue that the OS X and Linux docks get pretty close to the lowest level of simplicity and elegance.  Thus, my argument &#8212; OS X doesn&#8217;t really need to superficially change to stay relevant.  Again, their interface innovations occur in things that can&#8217;t easily be shown in a screenshot of an empty desktop.  I&#8217;m also not preaching that the UIs of OS X + Compiz are the way to go and that Microsoft should copy the competition &#8212; but if they don&#8217;t, they sure needs to think up something better.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/comment-page-1/#comment-19852</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/#comment-19852</guid>
		<description>@Jesse: Wow, massively unusable, you don&#039;t think that&#039;s a stretch? I use it every day at work and use two Vista PCs right along side an iMac and a Mac Pro at home. I hardly consider it unusable, as a matter of fact I can&#039;t seem to get in any development groove using my Macs (of which I have 3) so I do all web work, development, etc, on my Vista32 box. I also use a Vista 64 box as a media center machine slinging video to Xbox 360s too and fro the house.

You&#039;re argument is a bit sparse, you are saying OS X hasn&#039;t changed much because it hasn&#039;t had to, millions of people have been using Windows since way before Windows 95, so why does it &quot;have to?&quot; I dare say dual monitor support is stronger on Windows because 3rd parties make it possible to do things you can never do on a Mac, can you say mirror and stretch? I can...goood. What is it that OS X does so well with Multiple monitors? You can add one, check.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jesse: Wow, massively unusable, you don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a stretch? I use it every day at work and use two Vista PCs right along side an iMac and a Mac Pro at home. I hardly consider it unusable, as a matter of fact I can&#8217;t seem to get in any development groove using my Macs (of which I have 3) so I do all web work, development, etc, on my Vista32 box. I also use a Vista 64 box as a media center machine slinging video to Xbox 360s too and fro the house.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re argument is a bit sparse, you are saying OS X hasn&#8217;t changed much because it hasn&#8217;t had to, millions of people have been using Windows since way before Windows 95, so why does it &#8220;have to?&#8221; I dare say dual monitor support is stronger on Windows because 3rd parties make it possible to do things you can never do on a Mac, can you say mirror and stretch? I can&#8230;goood. What is it that OS X does so well with Multiple monitors? You can add one, check.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/comment-page-1/#comment-19850</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 05:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/#comment-19850</guid>
		<description>The point here is that Mac OS X hasn&#039;t changed in ten years, because it hasn&#039;t had to -- it has a solid UI base that doesn&#039;t need a new &#039;theme&#039; to look fresh.  The leaps made in OS X aren&#039;t in terms of color scheme and styling -- they are in terms of usability and function.   Virtual desktops, expose, widgets, etc are where the real differences are.

Windows still uses roughly the same user interface innovations made in Windows 95, and is massively unusable compared to the advanced windows managers available on OS X or Compiz on Linux.  It&#039;s not that anybody is expecting Windows 7 to look drastically different just because it&#039;s new, it&#039;s that everybody is expecting Windows 7 to look different because after 6 years of development, Vista STILL just looks like Windows 95/NT/98/2000/ME/XP with a different skin.  Flip3d is a complete joke, there isn&#039;t any support for virtual desktops, and multi-monitor support is still lackluster at best.  I&#039;m excited about the rumors of a dock-like window manager and advanced touch-based user interface integration in Windows 7, but am also very hesitant since Microsoft has a decade+ history of completely missing the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point here is that Mac OS X hasn&#8217;t changed in ten years, because it hasn&#8217;t had to &#8212; it has a solid UI base that doesn&#8217;t need a new &#8216;theme&#8217; to look fresh.  The leaps made in OS X aren&#8217;t in terms of color scheme and styling &#8212; they are in terms of usability and function.   Virtual desktops, expose, widgets, etc are where the real differences are.</p>
<p>Windows still uses roughly the same user interface innovations made in Windows 95, and is massively unusable compared to the advanced windows managers available on OS X or Compiz on Linux.  It&#8217;s not that anybody is expecting Windows 7 to look drastically different just because it&#8217;s new, it&#8217;s that everybody is expecting Windows 7 to look different because after 6 years of development, Vista STILL just looks like Windows 95/NT/98/2000/ME/XP with a different skin.  Flip3d is a complete joke, there isn&#8217;t any support for virtual desktops, and multi-monitor support is still lackluster at best.  I&#8217;m excited about the rumors of a dock-like window manager and advanced touch-based user interface integration in Windows 7, but am also very hesitant since Microsoft has a decade+ history of completely missing the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/comment-page-1/#comment-19847</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/#comment-19847</guid>
		<description>@ncus: not quite sure how you got that out of it :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ncus: not quite sure how you got that out of it <img src='http://www.philoking.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ncus</title>
		<link>http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/comment-page-1/#comment-19846</link>
		<dc:creator>ncus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.philoking.com/2008/09/22/windows-7-looks-the-same-os-version-screen-shots-over-the-years/#comment-19846</guid>
		<description>what are you saying that, Windows finally follow Apple decision? To make a streamlined interface change in Windows 7? Just like OS X 10.3 to 10.5 ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what are you saying that, Windows finally follow Apple decision? To make a streamlined interface change in Windows 7? Just like OS X 10.3 to 10.5 ?</p>
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